Solidify my understanding of folder structure, IMPORT, etc

[Cuzzinbrucie]

I felt like I had an adequate handle on the role of LR image folders with respect to importing. I finished importing around 440 images in groups of 30-40 images at a time. I then began to find handfuls of images that I wanted to add to what I already have and I started running into problems. I'm taking time out to make sure my workflow process is sound. Please read the following and provide your feedback/advice/correction/etc on my understanding of how things work in LR.

My understanding of best practices regarding LR folder structure, IMPORT, and image files:

1) The folder structure you create for your Lightroom images must be dedicated to LR and not used for any other purpose. This helps to insure LR always knows the current location of all images.

2) Create and maintain your dedicated LR image folder structure, folder names, and image filenames from within Lightroom.

3) The only way to introduce new images to LR is using IMPORT. The only place images should be stored is in your dedicated LR folder structure.

4) When IMPORTing new images from disk, use COPY or MOVE instead of ADD. ADD leaves the images in their current location and doesn't migrate them into your dedicated LR folder structure. Don't use MOVE unless it's ok to erase the original images.

5) The IMPORT destination using MOVE or COPY must be either an existing LR folder or a new folder created from within LR.

6) Never alter LR's folder structure, folder names, or image filenames outside of LR, for example using Windows Explorer.

7) Never add, delete, or change the image files stored in LR folders from outside of LR.

 

[clee01l]

That is a good summary. I wish everyone that showed up here had that clear of a grasp on the relationship of images with the LR catalog.

Since the name of a folder is not really important, you can speed up your import process if you let LR automatically create folder names based upon the Create date found in each image file header. It is OK to name your folders, but this is really duplicated effort in that the names given to folders properly belong in in the keyword list and assigned to the image in these folders.

 

[PhilBurton]

That is a good summary. I wish everyone that showed up here had that clear of a grasp on the relationship of images with the LR catalog.

Since the name of a folder is not really important, you can speed up your import process if you let LR automatically create folder names based upon the Create date found in each image file header. It is OK to name your folders, but this is really duplicated effort in that the names given to folders properly belong in in the keyword list and assigned to the image in these folders.

One more point. If you ever want to change your folder structure, rename folders, move files, etc., DO IT USING LIGHTROOM. (yes, I was shouting here.)

 

[Cuzzinbrucie]

That is a good summary. I wish everyone that showed up here had that clear of a grasp on the relationship of images with the LR catalog.

Since the name of a folder is not really important, you can speed up your import process if you let LR automatically create folder names based upon the Create date found in each image file header. It is OK to name your folders, but this is really duplicated effort in that the names given to folders properly belong in in the keyword list and assigned to the image in these folders.

I very much appreciate the compliment. Clarify for me please. You said ".....let LR automatically create folder names based upon the Create date found in each image file header." What if each image in the group of images being imported has a different create/capture date? In my case, the groups of photos I import typically have several different capture dates. My images are vintage family photos scanned to digital and not from a professional photography session where all the capture dates would be the same. Never thought of the folder names being in the keyword list. Not sure how I would benefit from folder name being a keyword.

Thanks

 

[Roelof Moorlag]

Clee's advice is particular for photo's from digital camera's. I'm using it also because it's the most efficiënt way and less risk on manual errors.
Scans like your's i would leave in the folder structure you like

 

[clee01l]

What if each image in the group of images being imported has a different create/capture date? In my case, the groups of photos I import typically have several different capture dates. My images are vintage family photos scanned to digital

Your situation could be an exception, but for me the Scan date named folder would be sufficient What would you do if the original "capture" date is unknown? IMO it is better to quickly import all of the images and let LR create date named folders based upon scan date. The once imported , on further review you could create collections based upon an event or a year or "unknown", depending upon your level of knowledge of the photo.

Not sure how I would benefit from folder name being a keyword.

You can quickly search keywords and find images with those keywords by clicking on the arrow that appears to the right of the keyword in the list If you want to find all of the photos of Aunt Mabel, you use the "Aunt Mabel" keyword to retrieve every image that contains that keyword no matter what folder, what year, etc. Similarly, with a Smart collection you can use the "Aunt Mabel" keyword along with "birthday", & "1947" to find a specific event.

 

[Hoggy]

Clarify for me please. You said ".....let LR automatically create folder names based upon the Create date found in each image file header." What if each image in the group of images being imported has a different create/capture date? In my case, the groups of photos I import typically have several different capture dates. My images are vintage family photos scanned to digital and not from a professional photography session where all the capture dates would be the same. Never thought of the folder names being in the keyword list. Not sure how I would benefit from folder name being a keyword.

Based on your 'beginner' status and this quote, I'm getting the impression you have is that LR might sort the photos into only one of the dates found in only one of the images. If that's the case, then that's not how it goes.

LR will look into the metadata for each and every image, and put them into a dated folder structure - for what each and every image has in its own metadata. So if you have 2 scans that have in their metadata: Dec 2000, and Jan 1982.. Based on the granularity you set the date format to, it might go into 2000\12\ & 1982\01\. For my own usage, I don't shoot often enough to warrant adding the day as well.

Keeping it date-based like that would also allow for easier backing up, as for instance, you could write on a BD-r label "198201 - 200012" and know where your backup left off.


However, that would be best for photos from a camera. With scans, the date put into the metadata will likely be far more arbitrary. Although you could change it later in LR. ...... And when Cletus was saying 'folder names as keywords', he was referring to if you were naming your folders something like "Xmas 2002" -- that 'Xmas' would be better used as a keyword (and date would typically already be in the metadata).

And I think Cletus's importing to scan date might be a good suggestion - useful for backup purposes, to boot.. That would solve one of the conundrums I was thinking of having - if or when I might ever get around to actually scanning in family photos, myself. (My biggest stumbling block now being the nightmare of how to deal with scanner calibration and profiling - on the free/cheap. )

 

[rob211]

Aargh. We moved from a very clear and thoughtful workflow outlined in the OP to date nightmares in dealing with scanned photos. That's a whole thread by itself. For me, that's an occasion where I do use "Add" since the images have already been scanned into folders, and I use the scanning software to name the folders. Even if I have a scanned image that was taken on the same date as a digital photo I somewhat arbitrarily leave it with the scans; with Lr there are so many ways to sort, filter and collect images it isn't worth it to me to move them.

And BTW, while I appreciate the conservatism in the OP's rules, and that's a good starting point, they are too restrictive.

For example: having referenced files means you CAN use them in other applications. That's one huge benefit. Don't MOVE them outside of Lr, but if you want to edit a RAW from such a folder in another application, fine. And Lr can import images even if they are in, eg, a folder say full of Word documents. I do that all the time with images I get for inclusion in a newsletter. Again, Lr keeps track of that; they don't have to be in my Pictures/2017 etc folders.

And as for adding to existing referenced Lr folders from outside Lr, that's fine too. That's basically what every editing plugin does (although it then imports the new file in place as an "Add"). Lr has this terrific "Synchronize..." command for just that purpose. If say someone gives you a thumbdrive of images for the same date you were on vacation with her, it's much faster (and more polite) to just copy them into the same date folder, and then after she's left you run "Syncrhonize..." and import them.

And finally, other applications DO change the images in your Lr folders. The XMP in files or in sidecars is designed so you could say use another application to make changes. Again, "Synchronize..." could bring that metadata into Lr. Or "Read metadata...". This is used by other Adobe-compatible applications, and stuff like Bridge.

So Lr is more flexible and robust than maybe you realize, although I say kudos for starting conservatively.

 

[Cuzzinbrucie]

My goodness! I couldn't ask for more thorough answers. I will re-read them more carefully and try to learn and remember the sage advice you folks are so kind to provide. I figure if I start with strict conservative rules as a beginner I can always branch out later. My application so far is 90% scanned to JPG images where I'm adding all the metadata myself. Little by little I will be adding images taken with digital cameras and iphones.

Thank you folks!

 

[René Roberts]

Because I had a Photoshop workflow and file structure already established when I became a LR user, my workflow is a little different.

I put everything that I want LR to catalogue in one folder with many sub-folders, and I maintain only one catalogue. If I have new camera images, I just download them onto the Desktop. They'll often cover different subjects spanning several dates. From there I put them into appropriate sub-folders that go into my one main LR photo folder. Then I immediately import them from that main folder by using Add. That allows me to have some manual control over the folder structure (which I'm often reordering, or creating new nests), and I can create new sub-folders manually if needed.

Yes, I know that I'm supposed to allow LR to create, move and rename folders and images. Seriously, every time I've tried this I've gotten horribly fouled up. Maybe I don't understand the choices that are presented in the dialogue box. I will drag and drop individual images or rename things, but major move-arounds have gotten snarled.

So instead, I mastered the simple technique of finding things that were "lost" by navigating and pointing to where they live. Since everything lives in one folder, that one skill has allowed me to easily structure things very quickly manually in the Finder and then to simply "tell LR" what the new sub-folder or naming structure is. For me it's very fast and it always works.

I will say that my LR folder structure is a little unconventional too, but it works for me and how my mind organizes and remembers my pictures. Because I came to LR with thousands of images with an existing folder structure that was organized for Photoshop purposes, I wasn't prepared to set up a keyword system. It wasn't until I could see everything at one time in LR's catalogue, in the filmstrips or in grid view, that I could even wrap my mind around a folder and keyword structure that would work for me! I still don't have everything keyworded, so I can't yet rely on keywords to find a particular subject. I use Library folders and sub-folders that are labeled by subject and date. LR never creates those names for me, I do that before I import.

The main purpose of LR is to be able to easily find your pictures. What works for one person may not work for another.

 

[Gnits]

My understanding of best practices regarding LR folder structure, IMPORT, and image files:

If you have a good folder structure and you are happy with it, then from time to time you may want to add a bunch of images (or a single image) to a particular folder where using your normal import process might not be the most efficient.

In that situation it is ok to copy the images to the folder outside of Lr and then inside Lr, right click on the folder and select Synch. This will give you an import dialogue which provides the option to import images in that folder which are not yet in Lr.

Example. I keep a general purpose folder under the current year where I keep adhoc images. Most of these may be downloads from the web, screen grabs, images used for individual misc purposes and not worth putting into their own folder, images used to prep a presentation, etc. They mostly contain images that do not fall into my classic ingest from a card after a photo session or trip process. I call this folder Web_2017.

From time to time I will download / copy/ an image to this folder. WIthin Lr, if I Synch this folder the most recent images, not already in Lr, are present ed for import.

For the vast bulk of images I use my own app to copy from the card to my disk. The Add option then becomes my Import mode of choice, as I do not need Lr to restructure or rename my images.

So, your grasp of the fundamentals is sound, but it is worth been aware of when Sync or Add might be appropriate options.

 

[Cuzzinbrucie]

If you have a good folder structure and you are happy with it, then from time to time you may want to add a bunch of images (or a single image) to a particular folder where using your normal import process might not be the most efficient.

In that situation it is ok to copy the images to the folder outside of Lr and then inside Lr, right click on the folder and select Synch. This will give you an import dialogue which provides the option to import images in that folder which are not yet in Lr.

Example. I keep a general purpose folder under the current year where I keep adhoc images. Most of these may be downloads from the web, screen grabs, images used for individual misc purposes and not worth putting into their own folder, images used to prep a presentation, etc. They mostly contain images that do not fall into my classic ingest from a card after a photo session or trip process. I call this folder Web_2017.
View attachment 9126

From time to time I will download / copy/ an image to this folder. WIthin Lr, if I Synch this folder the most recent images, not already in Lr, are present ed for import.

For the vast bulk of images I use my own app to copy from the card to my disk. The Add option then becomes my Import mode of choice, as I do not need Lr to restructure or rename my images.

So, your grasp of the fundamentals is sound, but it is worth been aware of when Sync or Add might be appropriate options.

=========================================
For purposes of this discussion, I'm going to suggest a descriptive name for the collection of folders that house all the images that have been imported to Lightroom and registered in the catalogue. I'm doing this to set these folders apart from all other folders that are not managed by LR. I'll call them "Lightroom Master Imported Image Folders." (LMIIF). Now permit me to paraphrase one of your paragraphs to be sure I understand the process you're using.

"In that situation it is ok to (use Explorer to) copy the images (from a non-LMIIF folder to an LMIIF folder). Then inside Lr, right click on the (LMIIF) folder and select Synch. This will give you an import dialogue which provides the option to import images (the new images) in that folder which are not yet in (the) LR (catalogue)." Does my paraphrasing still accurately convey your thoughts?

I also like the adhoc folder idea for miscellaneous images.

 

[Johan Elzenga]

Just don't call them Master Image Lightroom Folders!

 

[Roelof Moorlag]

Just don't call them Master Image Lightroom Folders!

LOL

 

[Gnits]

I also like the adhoc folder idea for miscellaneous images.

I get the sense you understand the principles involved. I suggest you create a test ad-hoc folder within Lr and put misc items into it over a week or so in test mode. Each time you do a synch of this folder you should see the images you expect to be imported into Lr. You will build up muscle memory on how to handle this and be comfortable then to use where relevant in more real world scenarios. For such ad-hoc images, I usually have a a configured import setting where I do not apply metadata and I do not apply any development settings, as most of these items are screen grabs or images used for documentation, training, etc..

Again remember the options for the overall Lr Import preset is at the bottom of the screen, not on the right hand side where you would expect it to be.

"SynchLatest" is my preset which has develop settings as None and Metadata settings as None.

I also use this setting if I am importing images from another photographer (who I may be doing some post processsing for or providing an opinion). In that scenario I also do not want to be adding my metadata or dev presets, as I do not want to put my metadata onto another photographers images and want to examine their settings before I consider making any adjustments.

 

[Cuzzinbrucie]

Thanks Matt. As always you seem to quickly understand my novice LR ramblings and come back with spot on solutions that are easy for me to understand. Cheers.

 

[imtnbike]

I think my question is along the same lines - seem to remember is was easy to find my import folder in LR5 / now in LR6 I have to chase the folder hierarchy all the way from my Mac HD to....users/user name/wkg pic folder/pic folder.

Is there anyway to "anchor" the wkg pic folder (or any folder for that matter) so the import folder list doesn't back all the way out to the hard drive?

Have tried the right-click "dock" option but I get backed out to the HD folder after each LR restart.

Any assistance is greatly appreciated!

 

[Johan Elzenga]

The easiest way is to save a few import presets. An import preset includes all the import settings, also the destination folder.

 

[imtnbike]

The easiest way is to save a few import presets. An import preset includes all the import settings, also the destination folder.

Thanks for that feedback. I do have some presets - will create a new one that will hopefully maintain my import folder. The destination folder I know holds steady on my presets - not some much for import side folder but will try a new preset and see. Thanks again.

 

[Jim Wilde]

If you mean the source folder, not the destination folder, this can't be included in an import preset, however all import sources are retained in a "recent" list which you can access by clicking on the name of the currently selected source shown above the left-hand panel. If no source is currently selected that area shows "Select Source" but clicking on that will also show the drop-down list of recent sources. Selecting from there will likely be quicker than drilling down through the folder hierarchy.

 

[imtnbike]

If you mean the source folder, not the destination folder, this can't be included in an import preset, however all import sources are retained in a "recent" list which you can access by clicking on the name of the currently selected source shown above the left-hand panel. If no source is currently selected that area shows "Select Source" but clicking on that will also show the drop-down list of recent sources. Selecting from there will likely be quicker than drilling down through the folder hierarchy.

Excellent - much appreciated!