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Lr 2017?

Discussion in 'Extending Lightroom' started by mcasan, Nov 3, 2016.

  1. mcasan

    mcasan Active Member

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    So Adobe released Ps 2017 via CC. Did not strike me as anything for photographers.

    So when do we see Lr 2017 and what will be added to it? A serious performance boast would not be a bad start.
     
  2. JohanElzenga

    JohanElzenga Lightroom Guru Staff Member Lightroom Guru

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    As usual: those you know can't tell, those who don't know will only speculate.
     
    flylow likes this.
  3. clee01l

    clee01l Lightroom Guru Staff Member Lightroom Guru

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    So, I will speculate. Adobe MAX is an ongoing event through Friday. If there is going to be anything on LR it could be to come. There is a session on the Agenda for this evening called (6pm – 7:30pm) MAX Sneaks. Could that be some sneak peaks at other Adobe products not ready for release? This could include a future LR. Stay tuned ... Adobe MAX—The Creativity Conference.
     
  4. PhilBurton

    PhilBurton Active Member

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    IF LR 2017 is announced, IF, will there be or will there not be a companion LR 7 perpetual?

    And what about Illustrator, InDesign, etc?
     
  5. mcasan

    mcasan Active Member

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    If there will be a standalone Lr 7, it would not have same functional content as Lr CC, especially over time.
     
  6. Conrad Chavez

    Conrad Chavez Active Member

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    Illustrator and InDesign were both part of the wave of flagship applications updated yesterday, including Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign, Premiere Pro, After Effects, and a few others.

    During the Adobe MAX keynote there was a demonstration of Lightroom Mobile web and mobile device apps, but I don't remember the desktop version of Lightroom making any appearance at all.
     
  7. PhilBurton

    PhilBurton Active Member

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    Did you attend this session? If there was no desktop Lightroom announcement, then probably there isn't a new desktop release, whatever it is called.
     
  8. johnbeardy

    johnbeardy Senior Member Staff Member Moderator Lightroom Guru

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  9. mcasan

    mcasan Active Member

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    I am more and more disillusioned by Adobe. They are doing far too little with Lr. I will likely move to On1 Photo RAW when they have their migration tool ready in early 2017. As for Ps.....never use it. I don want to have to move an image from a raw file to a tif or psd just to do more advanced editing. With Photo RAW, it is all done on top of a raw file with a sidecar, not tif or other raster.
     
  10. tspear

    tspear Senior Member

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    Lr is more of a digital asset manager then a photo editor. So you really are not comparing apples to apples.
    In addition, even considering the import dialog fiasco, Adobe has continued to make steady progress on the Lr for the past year or more. Look at the shear number of bugs and improvements to new features added in the 6.X release. Look at Pano, HDR have steadily improved, look at Dehaze (first global, then local adjustments added). There are many more examples. Overall, I may wish Adobe adds some new features faster and improves some functionality, but when you sit back and look at the complexity of the items they have been working it is a fairly good accomplishment.

    If you decide to move on, may you have the best of luck with On1.
     
  11. clee01l

    clee01l Lightroom Guru Staff Member Lightroom Guru

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    I've paid for the On1 PhotoRAW app. Waited patiently for the Fall Release, late Fall release and finally the Late November Pre-release. I'm not very impressed with the Pre-release. One PhotoRAW is basically a counterpart to ACR with some canned presets included. It does not do any image management (you still need LR for that) There is a big disconnect between what happens in LR as far as keywords ratings picks etc. Everything has to be saved to Metadata in LR before ON1 PhotoRAW can pick it up. Color indicators are the same but LR uses a color label set and Bridges uses a different color label set as a default. Neither seem to be picked up by ON1 PhotoRAW Filters are incredibly slow as the App needs to scan every file in the folder to filter on some characteristics. The filter options are crude and there is nothing like a Smart Collection.
    As for Edit adjustments, I see nothing beyond what was available in On1 Photo10. Just that these can now be applied to RAW files.

    PhotoRAW is just like PhotoShop if you want to create derivative file. You need to create the export before you can use the On1 Photo RAW adjustments in another application. It is Like LR in that the adjustments can be generated in the app and applied to the original image (i.e. RAW + Adjustments) You still need to export to make use of these outside of the app. Lightroom keeps everything in one catalog database file. Easy to backup when kept in one file. ON1 Photo RAW by default doesn't save any edit adjustments. If you turn this on in Preferences, a side car file with an .on1 extension is saved in the folder with the master. This develop meant data is not readable by any app other than On1 Photo RAW. Since there are lots of little files created it becomes like backing up an Adobe XMP sidecar Which can be utilized by any Adobe photo app. I think since you spend time in the file browser, it might be quite easy to use Explorer/Finder to delete important sidecars unintentionally.

    Another baffling thing is Crop. It is not available in the pre-release. The same control is present in On1 Photo10. With 36mp images, I almost always crop not being able to do this in the prerelease is a setback.

    ON1 Photo RAW can be used in LR as an external Editor. However, you must create an intermediate PSD file (Just like PSCC) You can not work on a RAW file if used with LR as your image manager.

    In summary, ON1 Photo RAW is several generations behind ACR and PSCC. It does have some nice features, but nothing over its predecessor ON1 Photo 10.
     
  12. PhilBurton

    PhilBurton Active Member

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    So how is ON1 Photo RAW an improvement over Lightroom? Better RAW conversion? If nothing else, the lack of a catalog is a serious deficiency for some operations.

    In a way, I'm disappointed. I was hoping that Photo RAW would present serious competition for Lightroom, so Adobe would be forced to respond to both the functionality and the pricing model, e.g. with a perpetual license LR 7.
     
  13. PhilBurton

    PhilBurton Active Member

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    Another thought. Lightroom has a rich eco-system of third-party plug-ins and presets. Does ON1 Photo RAW have anything similar, or even the potential for anything similar over time?

    Phil
     
  14. clee01l

    clee01l Lightroom Guru Staff Member Lightroom Guru

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    There are lots of Presets available. I think most are home grown. Photo RAW will never be competition for LR although it might become a decent ACR/PSCC replacement when it matures in a few years.
     
  15. PhilBurton

    PhilBurton Active Member

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    There is an amazing eco-system of plug-ins for Photoshop, much bigger than for Lightroom.

    I think it's a lousy business strategy for ON1 to try to compete head-on with Adobe. (That's true in any market, not just software for photographers.) They could do much better by reading the Adobe forums for feature requests and building plug-ins that all those requests without requiring that images be exported to an "external editor."

    Since they are building a Lightroom Migration Tool, they seem to understand how Lightroom edits are stored in the catalog or in XMP files. What if they built their capabilities to work directly with the Lightroom catalog? Stuff like masks and layers, without leaving Lightroom? With non-destructive editing? THAT would be a great way to beat all the other external editor products, and that would be a competitive advantage over Adobe with PS.

    But they won't do that. :rolleyes: Too much corporate ego. I've seen this movie many times.
     
  16. Mike Naylor

    Mike Naylor New Member

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    Its a similar story with Phase One. I bought Media Pro SE and Capture One 9 and found both to be lacking with no sensible integration between the two. On paper, MPSE would seem to tick all the boxes, with virtually no limit to manage any file type, but the UI experience is antiquated and idiosyncratic. CO9 has jazzier controls, but jumping between the tabs can be confusing. And again, both products rely on sidecars.

    I’d hoped their latest release, CO10, would finally lead the way to a viable LR alternative, but no. No real improvement to its built in catalogue system. It would seem Phase One are all about selling their cameras and digital backs. Attracting disgruntled LR and Aperture users to pay over the odds for software is a lucrative sideline.

    I’m back with Adobe now and happy to pay the monthly Photographers CC subscription, but longing for a massive update to the catalogue side. Why? Because relying on third party plug-ins from talented individuals working from home makes me nervous.
     
  17. johnbeardy

    johnbeardy Senior Member Staff Member Moderator Lightroom Guru

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    That's where CaptureOne suffers from a conflict of interest - it won't support medium format cameras and backs that compete with PhaseOne's own. That won't affect many people, of course, but recently Fuji announced a GFX camera that's in the MF space for less than $10k. Who knows if it will be deemed to be a competitor product?

    John
     
  18. PhilBurton

    PhilBurton Active Member

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    Adobe may have decided that if a particular user requirement has been addressed effectively via a plug-in, they will not expend their own resources just to duplicate that functionality.

    Phil
     
  19. johnbeardy

    johnbeardy Senior Member Staff Member Moderator Lightroom Guru

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    That's really not the case, Phil. In fact, plug-in authors often go to work only when they have given up on Adobe doing something.

    John
     
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  20. PhilBurton

    PhilBurton Active Member

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    John,

    I don't think we are really disagreeing.

    There is a point of strategy, in which Adobe seems to be different from Microsoft. Each new version of Microsoft Windows incorporates features that had already been developed by third-party authors. Microsoft is a much bigger company than Adobe, with greater resources. If you are a third-party author, you may find yourself in competition with Microsoft. And when that happens, guess who wins?

    With Windows 10, you can now create PDFs. Theoretically you no longer need to buy Acrobat from Adobe. Or even use Acrobat Reader.
     

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