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Canon Pro-1 printing weak blacks

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lay9eggs

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Hi everyone,
Recently, my Epson R3000 died. It has served me 6 yrs with excellent result.
I have replaced it with a Canon Pro-1. I make b/w prints on fine art rag paper. I am unable to get a print with saturated blacks on subject like a wall with most parts of it in dark shadow. It looks grayish, muddy and patchy. The ink just doesn't saturate the paper. This has not been the case with my previous printer.

Prints on subjects like foliage isn't that bad. Even though, I wish the blacks could be better. The bigger disappointment is on the continuous, textureless dark tone on a large part of the image that looks really ugly.

I'm printing from Lr on Canson Rag Photographique, using Canon's own icc profile for this paper. Print Media is Other Fine Art Paper 1. Other selections are Media Type: Matte and Intent: Perceptual.

Can anyone spot what I'm doing wrong? The result I get just doesn't match with the reviews that I've read before purchasing the printer.

Thank you.
 
The most obvious thing to check is that you do not have the Canon printer driver over-ruling your colour settings from Lr (or Ps).
I do not have a Canon printer, but here is the Epson equivalent.

upload_2017-9-17_11-9-49.png
 
Hi Gnits, If what you meant is not to let the task be "managed by printer", it is not. Thanks:)
 
I've tried Canson icc profile too. it didn't work! Black and dark grays are like print on economy mode.
 
Hi Gnits, If what you meant is not to let the task be "managed by printer", it is not. Thanks:)

No, that is not what he meant. What he said is that if you let Lightroom manage the colors (and you just confirmed that you do), then you must make sure that the printer driver is not trying to do the same thing. I doubt that this would have an effect on the blacks, however. It usually causes a strong color cast.
 
Thanks Johan, I'm trying to search for the Pro-1 properties like the one Gnits show me. Where can I find it? Thanks:)
 
Thanks Johan, I'm trying to search for the Pro-1 properties like the one Gnits show me. Where can I find it? Thanks:)

Should be somewhere in the Printer Settings, but I don't have a Canon printer so I can't tell you where exactly.
 
I found one that says "Color Matching" with "colorsync and "Canon Color Matching" options. But both are gray-out. Could this be the one? Thanks.
 
Does it has anything to do with Print Resolution? I left it unticked. I understand that leaves the printer to select the appropriate ppi for the job. Correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks.
 
No the PPI setting is probably best left alone.

This sounds like a driver, profile or Color Management System (CMS) problem to me. These are unfortunately challenging to diagnose.

You stated that you used the Cannon profile for this paper. Did you really mean the "Canson" profile. Printer manufactures don't usually make print profiles for third party papers. If you are not using the Canson profile then I suggest that you download and install it.

Do you have different photo paper that you can try printing the same image. Maybe a sample of a canon paper that came with the printer? If you can make a good quality print on different paper then it would point to a bad print profile. If not then you probably contact Canon support to try resolve the problem using their printer/paper.

-louie
 
I found one that says "Color Matching" with "colorsync and "Canon Color Matching" options. But both are gray-out. Could this be the one? Thanks.

Yes, that's the one. On modern MacOS X systems these things are often automatically corrected, and with this driver that is obviously also the case. It means you can't even make this mistake if you wanted to. As I said, I didn't think it was a problem of 'double color correction' anyway, because that usually does not affect the blacks. Does your printer have a special matt black ink as well? My Epson does and that is the ink you need with matt papers. Maybe there is a separate setting for that somewhere.
 
No the PPI setting is probably best left alone.

This sounds like a driver, profile or Color Management System (CMS) problem to me. These are unfortunately challenging to diagnose.

You stated that you used the Cannon profile for this paper. Did you really mean the "Canson" profile. Printer manufactures don't usually make print profiles for third party papers. If you are not using the Canson profile then I suggest that you download and install it.

Do you have different photo paper that you can try printing the same image. Maybe a sample of a canon paper that came with the printer? If you can make a good quality print on different paper then it would point to a bad print profile. If not then you probably contact Canon support to try resolve the problem using their printer/paper.

-louie
Hi Louie, I'm using the Canson Rag Photographique profile provided by Canon. I found it on the Canon Europe website. I have read somewhere that Canon provided profiles for 3rd party papers is better than those by paper manufacturers. Anyhow, I have also used the paper profile by Canson. Same problem. So, I guess it couldn't be a profile problem.
Good idea. I will try to find another paper to try. Thanks:)
 
Yes, that's the one. On modern MacOS X systems these things are often automatically corrected, and with this driver that is obviously also the case. It means you can't even make this mistake if you wanted to. As I said, I didn't think it was a problem of 'double color correction' anyway, because that usually does not affect the blacks. Does your printer have a special matt black ink as well? My Epson does and that is the ink you need with matt papers. Maybe there is a separate setting for that somewhere.
Hi Johan, Canon printers automatically use matte ink when fine art papers are chosen. They do not purge ink to suit paper types like Epson printers do. Thanks:)
 
Try this video around 1 min ... where it shows you where to turn off printer control .... so the profile is selected from lr. This may not solve the problem, but best to be aware of this and eliminate from your trouble shooting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uz4VGNTQXeM
 
Try this video around 1 min ... where it shows you where to turn off printer control .... so the profile is selected from lr. This may not solve the problem, but best to be aware of this and eliminate from your trouble shooting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uz4VGNTQXeM
Gnits, watched that. I think he is on PC which is a little different than Mac interface. Thanks:)
 
I've made a couple of prints of a color chart (Is that what it's called?). It consists of many color and b/w images of strawberries and babies, etc., steps of grays from black to white. The prints from this chart came out beautifully.
Just wondering if something is wrong with my files. They are DNG directly from M246. However, I've had no problem with them on Epson R3000. Please let me know if you have a clue. Many thanks:)
 
I think I know the answer. The image I was trying to print has a high contrast. The dark area is quite weak, thus the muddy dark gray print output. However, I believe my previous Epson R3000 can handle this quite well. I've printed similiar kind of images like this one before. No problem.
From articles I've read before, the Epson handles b/w on fine art papers better. I think I understand it now. Thank you all for making time to help me. Really appreciate it:)
 
I think I know the answer. The image I was trying to print has a high contrast. The dark area is quite weak, thus the muddy dark gray print output. However, I believe my previous Epson R3000 can handle this quite well. I've printed similiar kind of images like this one before. No problem.
From articles I've read before, the Epson handles b/w on fine art papers better. I think I understand it now. Thank you all for making time to help me. Really appreciate it:)
I mean high DR. Not high contrast.
 
They are DNG directly from M246. However, I've had no problem with them on Epson R3000. Please let me know if you have a clue.

Well printing black and white greyscale is completely different. I don't think that the images from this camera have any color information at all and so the CMS and color profiles do not apply. I know that the Epson print drivers have a BW/greyscale mode. I have had better results using this driver mode when printing images that I converted to BW in Lightroom. This setting completely ignores the CMS and color profiles. I would guess that Canon has a similar setting. You probably want to find out how to use it.

-louie
 
Well printing black and white greyscale is completely different. I don't think that the images from this camera have any color information at all and so the CMS and color profiles do not apply. I know that the Epson print drivers have a BW/greyscale mode. I have had better results using this driver mode when printing images that I converted to BW in Lightroom. This setting completely ignores the CMS and color profiles. I would guess that Canon has a similar setting. You probably want to find out how to use it.

-louie
Yes, I think I can do that. Will report back soon. Thanks for the suggestion:)
 
I'm beginning to understand a bit more about this printer. Inspite of my initial disappointment, this printer is capable of making good prints. It likes a snappy image, so giving a boost to local and general contrast helps. It likes shadows to be printed darker. It doesn't handle underexposed tones very well. It gets extremely blotchy. I'm only comparing all these with the R3000's characteristics. I guess I need time to get to know my tools better. Thanks:)
 
Even though you have paper profiles from Canon and Canson, it may be useful to get a custom profile made which will match your printer exactly. You can do this yourself, if you have the calibrator or get a third party to send you test charts to print. I always create my own every time I buy a new paper, but will also download the manufactures version to do a double check.
 
Even though you have paper profiles from Canon and Canson, it may be useful to get a custom profile made which will match your printer exactly. You can do this yourself, if you have the calibrator or get a third party to send you test charts to print. I always create my own every time I buy a new paper, but will also download the manufactures version to do a double check.
Hi Happycranker,
Just wondering if a custom profile is helpful for one who prints b/w 99% of the time. I tend to stick to a slight warm tone for all my prints.
Anyway, do u know of someone who make good custom profiles? Thanks for the suggestion:)
 
Absolutely, I create B&W profiles as well as colour, every little bit helps. Some people use a RIP for printing there are many available, but are expensive. You could also look at QuadTone, this is cheaper, but is complicated to setup. This link may help with a lot of info on B&W and Canon X-Rite i1iO and a B&W test image - Northlight Images

Most of my printing is B&W and now that I have a roll feed, they can include big panoramas.

As I live in Australia I cannot help with a recommendation for custom profiles, but I am sure some else can help. I thought Red River do offer something like you need?
 
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Absolutely, I create B&W profiles as well as colour, every little bit helps. Some people use a RIP for printing there are many available, but are expensive. You could also look at QuadTone, this is cheaper, but is complicated to setup. This link may help with a lot of info on B&W and Canon X-Rite i1iO and a B&W test image - Northlight Images

Most of my printing is B&W and now that I have a roll feed, they can include big panoramas.

As I live in Australia I cannot help with a recommendation for custom profiles, but I am sure some else can help. I thought Red River do offer something like you need?
Thanks much. Really appreciate it:)
 
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