[FIX] Darker prints and color shifts when printing from LR2

[Samoreen]

Hi,

The problem

When printing RAW or TIFF files from LR2, you get a printer output that is much darker than it should be and that presents various color shifts.

I'm using an Epson Stylus Pro 38'' with the latest Windows driver (6.5' - which is rather old by the way). The workaround described below works for me under Windows XP SP3. It should also probably work with other systems/printers/drivers. Use at your own (minor) risk.

The "official" and recommended procedure for printing from LR is as follows:

1. Do not let the printer manage colors and select "Other..." from the profile dropdown list and select the ICC/ICM paper/printer profile that you want to use.
2. Click on Print... in LR which opens the Print Settings dialog.
3. Select the options you need and the paper you're using.
4. Disable the color management on the driver's side (in Epson's drivers, "Mode | Custom | No Color Adjustments").
5. Print

Unfortunately, this doesn't work for many of us and this produces a print that is dark and has color shifts as mentioned above. Note that the same image prints correctly from QImage or Photoshop CS3 (that is, the printer output corresponds to what you see on your calibrated display).

Note: If you decide to let the printer manage colors, you'll get even more problems.

Apparently, although color management has been (allegedly) disabled in the driver, there's something wrong between LR and the driver which makes that both LR and the driver are still trying to manage colors. In other words, the "No Color Adjustements" option of the driver doesn't seem to work with LR.

The workaround (found after hours of hair pulling and paper and expensive ink wasting):

In step #4,

1. Instead of selecting "No Color Adjustments", set Mode to "Custom | ICM"
2. Click Advanced...
3. Check "Show all profiles".
4. Select Driver ICM (Advanced)"
5. Set both the "Input profile" and the "Printer profile" fields to the very same profile that you specified in LR.

That is, if you specified Pro38 PGPP (Premium Glossy Photo Paper) in LR, then also select Pro38 PGPP in both "Input Profile" and "Printer Profile". This has actually the same effect as disabling color management in the driver (what "No Color Adjustements" should normally take care of).

That's it. When printing, you'll get exactly the same color results as when printing from QImage or Photoshop. No more dark prints. No more color shifts.

One might think that the bug is in the Epson driver but in that case, QImage would have the very same problem. So I tend to think that the bug is on the Lightroom side.

Note: Although Photoshop CS3 produces a correct printer output, it demonstrates the same problem as LR when using the "Match Print Color" option for soft proofing. But in that case, only the preview colors are wrong. The printer output is ok. Which also tends to demonstrate that Adobe has the problem, not Epson. Or maybe both...

Don't ask me why some users have the problem and others don't.

Hope this helps.

Update

According to my experience with LR3, this problem has apparently been fixed by Adobe (at least, this is what I observe when printing with my Epson Stylus Pro 38'').

 

[Maria Jesus]

Wow! Such a quick response! I am using an iMac, and have the monitor calibrated using the x-rite i1 calibrator. As this monitor does not have separate rgb controls I used the option rgb presets. It was suggested to me to use the LCD option so when I did the calibrating software did not allow me a luminance adjustment. I have so many problems with this it is driving me crazy. The thing I do not understand is when I go outside of lightroom and open the printer wizard the jpgs that came from my canon come out perfectly, as I see them on screen. That seems to say that the problem is somewhere in lightroom. I must be missing some adjustment or could be a bug. If I go an print the same image that I exported from Lightroom using lightroom software or take the exported jpg to a lab it comes out dark. To put an analogy on it, it seem like the historgram was reduced from a full range of tones to just the bottom 2/3rds taking out all of the tonal range I had before. Thanks so much for your help. I like using lightroom and think it is a great product but it can be a hair puller!

 

[Robiz]

At the risk of appearing dull may I add my recent experience? Intel iMac 24" with an Epson R24'', Epson inks and Prem. Glossy paper.
I "upgraded" my iMac to Snow Leopard. It had been printing perfectly well with the R24'' but had taken time to set up last year. Suddenly I was back 12 months with heavy colours, poor tone control and incorrectly positioned images on the paper. I read literally hundreds of posts on many forums, and one finally helped. It advised searching the profile lists using the ColorSynch Utility (Finder > Utilities). Run the colour synch 'first aid' and let it verify the profiles. I had two bad profiles; Epson R24'' normal the second was EW-sRGB. In the "Profiles" listing there was also a document called Stylus photo R24''.prm. I could not find any information on this, so took a chance and placed it in the trash with the EW-SRGB profile.

Here's the Standard.icc profile ID or locator strip; Tag 'dmnd' is in red print and describes the fault. Start in Macintosh HD.

/Library/Printers/EPSON/InkjetPrinter/ICCProfiles/SPR24''_A.profiles/Contents/Resources/SPR24'' Standard.icc
Tag 'dmnd': Tag size is not correct

I can't get this into the Trash, it's found in ColorSynch in the Profiles section under the drop down menu for "Other" at the bottom of the profiles.

I ran a test print. Unlike previous attempts the R24'' now prints at normal speed, not draft speed. The print colours and tones match my monitor. Me happy, finally.

 

[Robiz]

Sorry I can't get back into the post to amend it. I should also add that the drop down options menus which had been missing from my pre printing choices, have all reappeared, enabling a more comprehensive adjustment.
I hope this helps.

 

[Denis Pagé]

:icon_idea: To modify a post, top right of your own post is a "Modify" link...

 

[Famafoto]

What about the Canon PixmaPro 9'''. Also my reds are way off. Much darker on the screen then on prints. I did a nice shot of the Boston/TD Garden and the light tails on the bridge. When I print it out the reds are more orange...I turned the red up all the way, help a bit. Used Spyder 2 Express to Cal. my LCD.

 

[Victoria Bampton]

Are you using proper printer profiles famafoto? What settings are you using?

 

[Famafoto]

someone had a great link to a step by step config for an Epson...would love to see one for the PixmaPro 9'''. To many options to setup with the Drivers and software. I have alos found, that when I make a change to the printer, page setup in LR does not save. I have to make the changes from the control panel and printer options to make them save. It looks like most photogeaphers use Epson.

 

[RikkFlohr]

I use the Pixma Pro 9''' and my prints match very well with my display. Here are my steps.

Select Page Setup in LH Panel
Select Printer Properties
Main Tab, Set Color/Intensity to Manual
Click [Set…] Set Matching Tab to "None"
Set "Media Type:" to match your paper.
Select 'Page Size' on "Page Setup" tab to correct size
Click [Ok] until back to LR.

Print Job Panel on RH Side:
Under Color Management:
Set Profile: to your particular paper profile (supplied by Canon or your Paper Manufacturer)
Set Rendering Intent: Perceptual.

Click [Print…]

When I follow these steps, my print matches my monitor. My monitors (LCD) are calibrated every 9' days by Spyder 2.

If your prints are dark, you have your monitor brightness set too high.
If your prints are off on color, you have a bad monitor calibration or are using the wrong profile.

I hope this helps and solve your problem.

 

[Famafoto]

Thanks for the information, I'll check my settings. I think that is what I have. I'm going to change my paper to all the new Platnum II Paper. This way I don't have to change the paper settings. Just the Print size. The one thing that mixes me up, when in LR for the paper profiles, I can't match them up with the paper. i whish they listed by name and not by numbers. Now it may me simple, and I'm just over reading it?

Is the Spyer 2 the same as Spyder 2 Express? That is what I have.

 

[RikkFlohr]

Here is a breakdown of Canon Manufactured Paper Profiles:
http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/c...ortDetailTabAct&fcategoryid=267&modelid=12892 (watch the wrap)

The profile key is near the bottom

 

[Famafoto]

When I click on your link, I get just the support page. Where should I go after that?

 

[RikkFlohr]

Ah yes, Canon and their top secret links. Why they refuse to let people link to their product information is beyond me. It makes it hard for people to help others.
You can type in "Print Profiles" into the "Please Enter your Question:" box, follow the links and read the full two page document with diagrams.
I have copied and pasted the pertinent text here for you:

(1) Printer model name
(2) Media type
Each alphabet pair represents its respective Media type.
PR = Photo Paper Pro and Pro II
SP: = Photo Paper Plus Glossy
MP: = Matte Photo Paper
SG: = Photo Paper Plus Semi-gloss
GL: = Photo Paper Plus Glossy II
PT: = Pro Paper Pro Platinum

(3) Print quality
The numbers correspond to the numbers on the print quality slide bar in the [Custom Quality] dialog box opened from the [Main] tab of the driver. The lower the number, the finer the quality

 

[Famafoto]

Thanks, Thanks, and Thanks. This has helped me so much.....your the best....Again, Thanks - Steve

 

[RikkFlohr]

I've printed those Paper Profile Description Keys and physically taped them to my printer. Whenever I load the paper, I can look at the package and the key and know which profile I want to use.

Glad it worked out.

 

[Famafoto]

I printed a photo last night. My photos Looks better, my reds are still off a little (more like orange on the print. Nice dark reds of the car trails on the screen) All the other colors look great. I'm going to re-cal my monitor tonight.

I'm now thinking it is my new PC. Color was better on my XP 32 machine. I upgraded to Vista/Win 7 64 bit back in july. Colors were off, then I got my spyder 2 express. LCD is the same (Samsung Syncmaster T22'). Maybe I should get the new Spyder 3 Pro?

Anyway, again thanks - Steve

 

[bobnudd]

Hi I am having a similar problem getting prints to match my screen in Lightroom 64bit for Vista. At the moment, the prints are coming out darker, and with a slight orange cast. I can't work out why they are darker and why reds and fleshtones seem to have an orange cast. I have printed the same images off on a different printer and they come a closer match to my on screen versions and in Photoshop CS2 with better success.

Using
Lightroom 64bit 2.6
Vista
Epson PX71'w

This is what I am currently doing to produce prints:

Print module:

Colour management:
Profile > I choose the profile which matches the paper that I am using.

*Print*>Properties>Main>Choose Quality + Paper Type
>Advanced>Colour Management>ICM>Off (No Colour Management)

*OK* Print...

Any suggestions why I am getting slightly orange reds and darker images? I have tried the suggestion mentioned so far.

 

[Brad Snyder]

Is the Epson driver recommended for 64bit Vista? Are you using genuine ink? If you've followed all the monitor calibration, etc. advice above, it sounds like you're doing everything right.

 

[bobnudd]

Hi Brad,
Thanks for your reply. I am using genuine ink etc and have followed all the suggestions in this thread. I am in the process of uninstalling the printer drivers and downloading the latest 64bit versions from the Epson site. I shall post any updates. Thanks

 

[nleung]

Please help. Prints via LR either color shifted to magenta/green, or cooler, desaturated, dark. Monitor calibrated with Eye-One, using Epson premium glossy PhotoRPM ICC profiles for R19'', printer and LR have latest updates.

If LR manages and printer ICM off . . . print cooler, more contrasty, slightly dark compared to original as seen on monitor.
If LR manages and printer set to "ICM advanced", using either Adobe RGB or sRGB input, perceptual intent, printer profile Epson Stnd . . . print is magenta/green shifted, overexposed
If LR manages and printer set to "ICM advanced", input and printer profile set to same icc profile as set in LR, perceptual intent . . . print closer to original but still cooler (this was recommended in an earlier blog)
If LR set to "manage by printer", printer set to "ICM Adv", using either Adobe or sRGB input results in desaturated and dark prints
If PS CS4 manages and printer ICM off . . . better skin tones but still cooler and slightly underexposed
If PS CS4 set to "manage by printer", and printer set to "ICM adv", Adobe RGB input, perceptual intent, Epson Stnd printer profile . . . better exposure but colors still desaturated.

Best print thus far in matching the monitor has been from the same photo exported as JPEG and subsequently printed using Windows, printer set to ICM Adv, Adobe RGB input, perceptual intent, Epson Stnd printer profile. This suggests that the problem is in LR as well as PS or at least something I'm not setting right.

Again, please help. I am SO frustrated and am beginning to despair of being able to use LR. Getting this problem solved would be nearly life changing. Thank you in advance for your input.

 

[Brad Snyder]

nleung, welcome to the forums.

Well, Lr manages and printer ICM off is the way to go, I think.

Question, does your Eye-One calibration have the capability to determine screen luminance? I.e., are you actually adjusting the monitor buttons to set the overall screen brightness to a specific target. I ask, because dark prints are sometimes a result of too-bright, but otherwise color-calibrated displays.

 

[Victoria Bampton]

[quote author=Brad Snyder link=topic=2863.msg61'52#msg61'52 date=12646979'2]does your Eye-One calibration have the capability to determine screen luminance?
[/quote]
The Eye One software does if you go through the advanced mode.

 

[nleung]

Thank you for your replies. Yes, I use the advanced mode on Eye-One. I'm still experimenting (and using lots of paper and ink). I shoot in RAW and Adobe color space. I got spot on color and brightness compared to the monitor photo when I converted the file to JPEG, kept the Adobe color space, printed it using Windows, set the Epson R19'' to ICM Advanced and chose Adobe RGB input profile, Perceptual intent, Epson standard printer profile. So, I think the calibration is ok. When I re-imported the JPEG file into LR, printed the same file with LR managing (correct icc profile chosen), and ICM off on printer, print was darker and colors seemed slightly desaturated or it could be colors subdued due to the underexposure. When I printed same JPEG file with LR managing and that workaround of same icc profile in both Input Profile and Printer Profile choices, I got better match to exposure but colors definitely shifted more to yellow. It seems prints are always somewhat off if LR is involved, which is frustrating since I want the printing options in LR. On Windows I can only print one full sized photo. There is something going off in the communication between LR and the printer

 

[Brad Snyder]

Hmm two points to mention.

1) FYI, with raw files, it doesn't matter what colorspace you had the camera set to. i.e. 'I shoot in raw and AdobeRGB'. The raw file is the same whether you choose AdobeRGB or sRGB. There is a smaller second-order effect, in that the camera back LCD and histogram, and the JPG preview embedded in the raw will be affected by this setting.

2) Be absolutely sure that you're not accidentally applying some sort of develop preset when re-importing the JPG back into Lr for comparison purposes. Likely, you've already checked, but worth mentioning.

The difficulty with these sorts of problems, is that they're so much easier solved sitting down together at the PC, rather than this back and forth via posts. Lots of nuance is lost in the text exchange.

 

[nleung]

Good point about the presets but none were applied. I completely agree that problem solving via posts is not ideal and sitting with someone with some expertise would probably solve or identify the problem within a day. I can't seem to find such a person yet. Someone suggested to develop a preset to compensate for the color/exposure shifts, but then, it rather defeats the purpose of having an easy to use printing module. I looked into calling Adobe customer service but not ready to pay the price yet (it's a lot). Although, I probably am spending as much in paper and ink! I'll keep looking and working on it. Meanwhile, any ideas yet on what I can do? Thanks.

 

[msu1855]

[quote author=RikkFlohr link=topic=2863.msg57641#msg57641 date=12596'5652]
I use the Pixma Pro 9''' and my prints match very well with my display. Here are my steps.

Select Page Setup in LH Panel
Select Printer Properties
Main Tab, Set Color/Intensity to Manual
Click [Set…] Set Matching Tab to "None"
Set "Media Type:" to match your paper.
Select 'Page Size' on "Page Setup" tab to correct size
Click [Ok] until back to LR.

Print Job Panel on RH Side:
Under Color Management:
Set Profile: to your particular paper profile (supplied by Canon or your Paper Manufacturer)
Set Rendering Intent: Perceptual.

Click [Print…]

When I follow these steps, my print matches my monitor. My monitors (LCD) are calibrated every 9' days by Spyder 2.

If your prints are dark, you have your monitor brightness set too high.
If your prints are off on color, you have a bad monitor calibration or are using the wrong profile.

I hope this helps and solve your problem.
[/quote]
Th
Thank you so much. This was dead on. I too Spyder Calibrate and have a Pixma 9'''. My printouts are now a perfect match.