Colour mis-match question

[Snapdragon]

Hello, this may not be strictly a LR question, but I'm hoping someone will know the answer. It's the usual thing, colour mis-match between monitor and printed image. However: monitor and printer are profiled using a Colormunki and I've profiled each of the papers I use. A standard calibration print is pretty accurate as far as colours go so I can't understand why my own images are so far out. I have colour adjustment turned off in Printer Preferences and select the correct paper type in the Print Module. It's an Epson R2880 and I'm using Epson inks and always shoot in RAW.

If, for example, the calibration print had a blue cast, as did my print, I could understand it. One thought in the (many) posts I've been through this morning suggests that the monitor is too bright, but how does that tie in with it being profiled?

 

[davidedric]

Check out that you have colour management OFF in your printer. Sounds as if it could be a case of "double management"

Dave

 

[Snapdragon]

Thanks, Dave, but as mentioned in my post, I've already turned it off.

 

[davidedric]

Sorry, missed that

 

[clee01l]

Thanks, Dave, but as mentioned in my post, I've already turned it off.

If you have a calibrated monitor and are using SoftProofing in Develop, then I might suspect the monitor is incapable of reaching the calibration point. If the monitor is a few years old, it could be time to replace. Do you have another monitor that you can calibrate and use alongside this one to see if the image in LR looks the same on both calibrated monitors?

 

[Snapdragon]

Ah - that's something I didn't think of, it's about 5 years old, I reckon. I do have another I can try, but it's not as 'good' as my Samsung SyncMaster. I'll have a go when I get home, but in the meantime, does this mean you give me permission to buy a lovely new one?? I was wondering what I could spend some money on... (not usually a problem for a woman).

 

[LouieSherwin]

The place I go to learn about color management is Andrew Rodney's digitaldog.net. To get an in-depth look at how to address matching your monitor with prints you might like to watch Video tutorial: Why are my prints too dark. This covers your question regarding the brightness setting of your monitor and print viewing.

-louie

 

[Snapdragon]

Thanks, Louie, I'll take a look.

Cletus: monitor was purchased in April 2008, so about time it was replaced, do you agree?

 

[Snapdragon]

Just to add - why does the calibration print look right, allowing for the difference in transmitted light etc?

 

[clee01l]

Thanks, Louie, I'll take a look.

Cletus: monitor was purchased in April 2008, so about time it was replaced, do you agree?

I wish that I knew of a way to test the monitor signal strength to get a definitive answer for you. But yes, I'd trade up from an 8 year old monitor. You might look for a wide gamut IPS monitor as a replacement Wide Gamut will give you a near AdobeRGB color envelope.
Here is a link to some recommended monitors Five Affordable Monitors for Color Grading The largest color profiles are found in monitors that can display DCI-P3 color space.

 

[Conrad Chavez]

Buying a new wide gamut display might not be needed to fix this problem. If the color or brightness is that far off, it's probably more of a problem with a setting somewhere along the workflow, like display brightness set too high.

The largest color profiles are found in monitors that can display DCI-P3 color space.

I'm not sure "largest" is correct. DCI-P3 and Adobe RGB are actually about the same size, but their volumes cover different colors.

There is a general tradeoff between using P3 or Adobe RGB. If your display is calibrated to P3 it will be able to reproduce more red/yellow colors but fewer blue/green colors, and if your display is calibrated to P3 it will be the opposite (be able to reproduce more blue/green colors but fewer red/yellow colors). There are some visual examples of this Adobe RGB vs P3 color tradeoff at: The Wide Gamut World of Color

Regarding P3 or Adobe RGB vs the Epson 2880 mentioned in the first post, when comparing 3D gamuts in ColorSync Utility, Adobe RGB looks like a closer overall match to the Epson gamut (on Premium Luster paper at least), while P3 is a little off center, leaning much more toward the reds but reproducing fewer blues/greens than Adobe RGB. In other words, size isn't everything.

Whether you choose between an Adobe RGB or P3 display may depend on which colors are more common in your photographs. It's even possible that an sRGB display like the one you already have is good enough, if the colors in your images are mostly within sRGB anyway. As long as your current display can be calibrated successfully at a brightness level that's appropriate for printing, it shouldn't be too far off for use with an Epson printer, and any large discrepancies are probably something to do with a setting somewhere in the workflow.

 

[Snapdragon]

Thank you - umm, what is DCI-P3 color space? 3D gamuts in Colorync utility? I'm a bit lost here, I'm afraid. I'll have a look at the monitor link tomorrow (UK time here and almost time for bed)) but was looking generally earlier.I fancied an Eizo self-calibrating one but they're way too expensive. Some of the others quoted 100% coverage for Adobe RGB and sRGB if that means anything important.

 

[Klaas]

For an easy and quick color test a grey card might be helpful. Produce with a color software a neutral grey picture (RGB=128). See this picture on the monitor and in parallel print it. Then use your grey card to compare this card, the monitor and the print. Are there any differences?

At least it worked for me. I used Spyderpad and it didn't calibrate my laptop monitor correctly too. So I had to find an other way for my colors on monitor and printer.

Klaas

 

[Snapdragon]

That may be useful - I'll give it a try.

Re the monitors: the Dell and BenQ were among those I looked at earlier, so it's good to know that they are recommended.

 

[LouieSherwin]

Hi Snapdragon,

I want to make sure that I understand what you are seeing. When you look at your calibration print in comparison to image in Lightroom they look close to the same. However when you look at your image print in comparison to the how it looks in Lightroom it shows a blue cast.

If that is correct then I would tend to agree with Conrad that there is a problem in your color management system (CMS) workflow. I would double check all the settings in Lightroom and the print driver. Also I have had problems using Epson print driver presets where they do not make the settings that I thought were saved. It is now my habit to always check them by selecting the "Printer..." button and explicitly checking all the driver settings for each print.

I have also had trouble getting the correct driver settings to persist when using saved prints.

Also have by any chance tried either of both of the validation images from the digitaldog.net site? One is in Adobe RGB and the other is in ProPhoto RGB. Printing both of them can very insightful as to how your profile is handling the colors. In my case I came to the conclusion that my custom made print profiles using an i1Pro were no better than the canned profiles.

If you were willing to post the image that you are having trouble with to DropBox or other sharing site I will print it out on my P600 and see if am getting similar problems.

-louie

 

[Snapdragon]

Hi, Louie. Thanks for the reply. What happens is that, although the colours on my calibration print match the screen, my images don't match the screen. When I print, I do check each setting in the Printer option (drives my other half mad!). I'll have a look at the digitaldog.net, but I'm coming round to the idea of a new monitor. Thanks for the offer to print for me, but the other half has just bought a P600, so we're in the process of testing things. In the meantime, I've reverted to the generic profiles rather than the ones I've created with the Color Munki.

As far as a new monitor goes, I don't know how long I've spent looking at reviews and had decided on the Dell UP2516D. Then I read the reviews of Dell as a company - terrible (here in the UK, anyway). In fact, all the suppliers had bad reviews, so back to the drawing board.

 

[Replytoken]

As far as a new monitor goes, I don't know how long I've spent looking at reviews and had decided on the Dell UP2516D. Then I read the reviews of Dell as a company - terrible (here in the UK, anyway). In fact, all the suppliers had bad reviews, so back to the drawing board.

Have you looked at any NEC or Eizo monitors? The companies have reasonably good reputations if you are not happy with Dell.

Good luck,

--Ken

 

[Snapdragon]

Thanks, Ken. I think 'll stick to the Dell which was in the list of recommended monitors in an earlier post. The Eizo ones are fqr too expensive, apart from the entry level one and I could go on forever without actually doing anything!

 

[Replytoken]

Thanks, Ken. I think 'll stick to the Dell which was in the list of recommended monitors in an earlier post. The Eizo ones are fqr too expensive, apart from the entry level one and I could go on forever without actually doing anything!

Understandable. A close friend was looking to upgrade last year and selected a Dell. It turned out fine. I did not notice any bleeding or hot spots, and the image seemed fine, but I did not have time to do a critical check. Dell seems to have upped their game, especially on certain series and models, and you probably could do far worse for the money.

Good luck,

--Ken

 

[Snapdragon]

New monitor arrived yesterday - looking good so far. The drivers are installed, it's calibrated, as is the printer and - joy of joys - I've got a print which looks pretty close to what I see on the screen. Thanks to all who replied.