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Thread: Keywords Missing

  1. #1
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    Keywords Missing

    I've seen similar issues on the forum but don't find a solution to my problem. Over the weekend I set up a new computer and used this opportunity to install LTR-4. I was using LTR-2 on the old one. I copied the LTR catalog backup files to an external HD (about 200 GB worth, going back a couple of years) and copied to the new computer. When I open the folders in LTR-4 the images are there, with captions and other metadata, but the keywords field is empty. I don't know why this is, nor what to do about it.

    I notice that if I import into LTR-4 a folder of "master files" (my finished, PSD image files) the keywords show up fine.

    Any suggestions on how to find those missing keywords without re-importing everything would really be welcome.

  2. #2
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    Greetings Ollie - glad to make your acquaintance.

    To clarify: did you just import your images in the usual way or did you 'import as catalog'.
    I have some thoughts as where the problem may be this first question does need answering.

    Tony Jay

  3. #3
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    Hi Tony:

    Here's what I think I did. First I copied the LTR catalog backup files from my old computer to an external hard drive, along with lots of other files (non-image files) I was transferring. Then I copied the external HD to the new hard drive. I think I only copied the most recent catalog backup, thinking it must contain everything. Then I installed LTR-4. As best I can recall, when I opened LTR-4 I didn't have to use the Import function for anything. My file folders were already there, grouped according to the external hard drives where they reside. The images are there, the adjustments have been preserved, and all the metadata seems to be there except for the keywords.

  4. #4
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    Thanks for that Ollie.
    There are a few questions that I have:
    Did Lr4 upgrade that catalog? Did it pose the question to you about upgrading the catalog?
    Also, I am bit confused why you did not use your most recent catalog rather than a backup?
    I do agree with backing up your catalog but how far back from now was the backup?

    Do you still have the original catalog that you were using in Lr2?
    If that has the keywords etc why not try renaming that catalog to something else, and then back it up in case of trouble.
    Also, from the parent folder press ctrl-A to select every image in your collection and then press ctrl-S which writes all the essential metadata in your catalog to file (xmp side cars in the case of proprietary RAW files, and straight to DNG, PSD, and JPEG files if you have them). if you still have copies of your images on the original computer.
    After that copy the catalog to where you want it to be on your new workstation.
    Double-click on the catalog. Lr4 should load and then a dialog box should ask you whether you want to update the catalog etc. Answer yes.
    The catalog should load.
    In Library module the folder structure of your image library will load but the images themselves will be "missing" as evidenced by the the exclamation marks on previews and greyed out folders. R-click on the parent folder and select 'find missing folder' from the menu and then navigate to the location of the parent folder where your images are on the new computer.

    If everything goes swimmingly then the new catalog should reference the images already on the hard drive in the new computer and all the metadata that was present in the Lr2 catalog should be present in the upgraded catalog.
    At this point, after thoroughly verifying that all the metadata is both present and correct, why not write all the metadata to file as described above.
    Once you are satisfied you can delete the original catalog that is sans the keywords.

    If any of the information shared does not seem quite right then please clarify before proceeding.
    The advice I have given is predicated on some educated guesses as to the state of play of your image collection and catalogs.
    I could be wrong in my assumptions.

    Tony Jay
    Last edited by Tony Jay; 23 Apr 2013 at 5:10 am.

  5. #5
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    Hi Tony:

    Thanks for all the thought you're giving to this. I'm not very good at this and I proceed cautiously. However today I'm even more puzzled, though I guess I have reason to be happy. Most of the folders have their keywords today. I don't want to waste a lot of your time but let me mention a couple of things and perhaps end with a couple of questions.


    First, let me make it clear: the images are all on external hard drives, both "masters" and backups, and all the caption, keyword, and copyright data is there. So I'm not going to lose anything. My masters are PSDs, but I also save in another folder the DNGs with LTR adjustments. Very few if any are on the desktop hard drives. But the LTR catalog backup was on the old desktop hard drive (C), and that's what I copied over to the new desk top (C), first by putting it on an external and then by uploading the external to the new desk top. It was my backup of April 19 that I uploaded to my new desktop.


    Today when I opened the LTR catalog backups folder on the new drive it showed me two folders, one labeled LTR-2, the other LTR-4. When I clicked on the LTR-2 icon I got a window saying "LTR-4 has previously upgraded the selected catalog. Would you like to use the upgraded catalog instead?"


    When I clicked the "Info" tab just below the LTR-2 icon it showed me that I have 102,377 photos in the catalog, and it offered me a button saying, I believe, "Please upgrade". Why would it offer me this option if LTR-4 has already upgraded the catalog?


    Does upgrading the catalog have anything to do with updating the process version? I've read that this should only be done on an image-by-image basis, since some changes might be undesirable.


    Now about that point that "most" of the folders have keywords today. Before I discovered that, I was thinking that maybe the quickest way to solve my problem was just to re-import the images from the external hard drives. Since the raw DNG files contain the LTR adjustments, would I lose anything by just re-importing them into the LTR library? Would they remain in their old process version, without being automatically re-processed in the 2012 version?


    Thanks for sharing your knowledge on this. While it looks like the problem of the missing keywords has gone away--for reasons I don't understand--I appreciate the time you took to try to guide me out of the wilderness.


    Best wishes,
    Chuck

  6. #6
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    Hi Chuck,

    Let me first reassure you that upgrading the catalog does not force you to apply different process versions to your legacy processed images.
    Think of Lr4 as being able to function like Lr2, Lr3, and Lr4 with regard to the Develop module.
    One can decide exactly what process version one wants to use for legacy images.
    As far as newly added (non-processed) images go, though, those need to be processed using process version 2012.

    I am not sure why you keywords appear to have come back, so to speak.
    That has got me completely puzzled.

    The behaviour of Lr4 with regard to upgrading the Lr2 catalog it can do that but it will name the catalog differently.
    The catalog is just the database - not the actual images.

    BTW the best way to learn about Lr is to troubleshoot.

    Tony Jay

  7. #7
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    Tony:

    Many thanks. No doubt I'll be learning a lot more in the days ahead. Things started looking up about a month ago, when I discovered this forum for the first time. What a resource!

    Cheers,
    Chuck

  8. #8
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    BTW reading my last post I detect a slight inaccuracy: unprocessed RAW images will be assigned, as a default, process2012 but you can change it to any of the others if you wish.
    Apologies for the goof.

    Tony Jay

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